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Invitations being sent to Mail List

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Invitations being sent to Mail List

Postby bitingmidge » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:30 am

Hi all,

I am aware this topic has been raised before, but I can't find the answer in the threads I've read, nor a work around. I am probably a notch above "dummy" when it comes to code, but am smart enough not to fiddle unless I know exactly what the outcome will be, so for now I have only played with the DadaMail interface. I have done that methodically though, and can't find a setting to fix the problem.

As the subject describes, I am setting up an "invitation only" discussion list, but cannot send invitations to the invitee. Invitations instead are sent to the list, and because the invitee is not on the list they do not receive them.

I suspect it's a setting that I've overlooked rather than the installation, as after a few hours (!) of working through the settings one by one, I tried the online "demo" and had exactly the same result!

I am using Safari v 5.1.3 and have also tried Firefox 10.0.2 to see if it was a browser problem current Apple OSX).

I have installed Dada Mail version 4.9.1 and am using FatCow.com as a host, but as the "demo" doesn't work for me, I suspect it's not an installation problem.

My configuration is : Invitation only list_

To invite subscribers I go via the menu to: Invite/Add subscribers /dada/mail.cgi?f+add

Invite Just One (or multiple - results are the same), then Verify Addresses

New screen with Verified Address(es) appears, so > Send Invitation

Lands on page headed "INVITATIONS" with the top box headed "invitees"

Then a standard message format.

The only options are to "Submit Test Message" or "Submit Mailing List Message" (green button!)

So Submitting the invitation message goes to everyone but the invitee.

I can enable "adding subscribers from within the list" and this function works as it should. From a practical perspective there is little administrative difference between "inviting" and "adding", but I'd really like to know what the problem is!

I hope the above is clear, thanks in anticipation!

Peter
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Re: Invitations being sent to Mail List

Postby justin » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:01 am

I'm def. not seeing this - if I invite say 1 new address, only one invitation is sent out, plus the copy that goes to the list owner (which always happens).

An invitation does NOT go out to all the other subscribers that are already subscribed, which I think is what you're describing, no?

You don't, by any chance, have the List Email subscribed to your mailing list, do you? If so, you've sort of created an infinite loop, with the List Email receiving the list invite, which is then broadcasted to the entire list. That would be bad.
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Re: Invitations being sent to Mail List

Postby bitingmidge » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:12 am

No I definitely don't have the list email subscribed.

I found the fact that it's happening on your online demo quite bizarre too! I'll try to replicate now and post some links to screen shots.

Cheers,

P
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Re: Invitations being sent to Mail List

Postby bitingmidge » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:52 am

Hi Justin,

Not that it gives you any clues other than to show I'm not making it up! (Or there's a button there I've missed in the process), the behaviour on my installation is identical.

Here are my screen shots on the DadaDemo files - not sure if it helps but I'm using OSX 10.7.3:

http://www.bitingmidge.com/canalchat/da ... shots.html

Cheers,

P
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Re: Invitations being sent to Mail List

Postby justin » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:46 am

Hmm, I'm still not sure what you're trying to show me - the last screen:

Image

Looks perfect - the list of invitees is on top, and the message you're going to send is on the bottom.

I wonder if this is just a design problem - Are you worried that if you press the, "Submit Mailing List Message", it'll go to your Mailing List, rather than the invitees? Would it give you more confidence if it said, "Submit Invitation Message"?
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Re: Invitations being sent to Mail List

Postby bitingmidge » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:08 pm

Did you ever have one of those days when it would probably have been better to just simply stay in bed? (you know, the ones where you can't even get your own email address right when signing up for a forum?)

I can't blame you for this particular piece of embarrassment, Justin, although yes, I do think it would be a better description to say "Submit Invitation Message". It's fair to say it was a piece of the puzzle which kept me running in the wrong direction!

I am consoled by the fact that others have made the same mistake, and it's suddenly "fixed" itself for them too! I do have one further related question though:

For the benefit of future brain-freeze "victims", my error was:

1) I wasn't aware that the administrator receives a copy of each invitation.

2) I did not use a big enough sample of email addresses - just two, one of which is routed through the other email account and distributed to its mailbox using a mail rule according the the "to" address in the header.

As fate would have it, the "primary" account was the one I manually subscribed initially, and mail to the "invitees" is addressed: List <"list_address"> which wasn't a) captured by my rule so ended up in the mail box of the only other subscriber, and b) I mistakenly took to mean was being delivered to the whole list.

All other mail (subscription confirmation, cancellation etc) is addressed to:
List Subscriber < "subscriber_address" > and is handled normally by my rule as it can "see" the addressee.

Justin, thanks for holding my hand on this, and as an aside, is it possible to toggle off the duplicate copy sent to the list owner?

Cheers,

P
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Re: Invitations being sent to Mail List

Postby justin » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:45 pm

I can't blame you for this particular piece of embarrassment, Justin, although yes, I do think it would be a better description to say "Submit Invitation Message". It's fair to say it was a piece of the puzzle which kept me running in the wrong direction!


Nope, it's a totally valid problem - if the UI isn't giving you 100% confidence that it's going to do, what you want it to do, it needs to be changed - I'll make sure to make it more clear in the next version of Dada Mail. I appreciate the feedback! It's sometimes hard for me to understand these types of problems, since I know in detail exactly what happens when you press that button.

1) I wasn't aware that the administrator receives a copy of each invitation.


Yeah, that's another thing I'm so familiar and used to, I forget other people are not.
2) I did not use a big enough sample of email addresses - just two, one of which is routed through the other email account and distributed to its mailbox using a mail rule according the the "to" address in the header.


And that's not all uncommon, while testing,
Justin, thanks for holding my hand on this,


No problem. Thank you!
and as an aside, is it possible to toggle off the duplicate copy sent to the list owner?


Again, another option that many people have asked for, and one I *personally* can't see the need for. I'll have that change, along with changes given your experiences in the next version of Dada Mail. Thanks for the beta :)
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Re: Invitations being sent to Mail List

Postby bitingmidge » Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:26 pm

justin wrote:
and as an aside, is it possible to toggle off the duplicate copy sent to the list owner?


Again, another option that many people have asked for, and one I *personally* can't see the need for. I'll have that change, along with changes given your experiences in the next version of Dada Mail. Thanks for the beta :)


My reason (as a tired, grumpy person - might change my mind after a day or two) is that there's no easy indication in the email of who it actually went to. If there was a field which had the invitees email address in it for admin purposes, it would make some sense to me.

Can you explain why you think it's useful?

On the subject of GUI, if I may, another set of buttons which aren't clear are the "Remove from Blacklist" in the "VIEW" screen. They don't actually say that - they say "Unsubscribe checked Black List Subscribers"

That caused a bit of angst for a minute or two, as I had three "subscribers" who I had unsubscribed and re-subscribed - therefore active AND on the blacklist. Thankfully hitting that button did exactly as instinct said rather than the instructions, and I have three subscribers no longer black listed!

I did feel a bit "shy" about raising these, but can see that in a few days I too will be familiar with the interface and not particularly taking note.

Where is the best place to raise other items such as these for your consideration?

cheers,

P
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Re: Invitations being sent to Mail List

Postby justin » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:58 am

My reason (as a tired, grumpy person - might change my mind after a day or two) is that there's no easy indication in the email of who it actually went to. If there was a field which had the invitees email address in it for admin purposes, it would make some sense to me.

Can you explain why you think it's useful?


I'm not sure what you're asking - why is inviting a useful feature? Probably so you don't subscribe an address that doesn't want to be on your list.

On the subject of GUI, if I may, another set of buttons which aren't clear are the "Remove from Blacklist" in the "VIEW" screen. They don't actually say that - they say "Unsubscribe checked Black List Subscribers"


Yeah, this is wholly revamped in the next version (v5).

Where is the best place to raise other items such as these for your consideration?


UI/UX/Usability issues are of very high importance to me - I'm really a visual person and usability is what I'd like to make a ton better in the program, as poor usability reflects badly on me, when I try for other UI/UX projects (which I am) - I think v5 of Dada Mail is a big step forward.

For example, View List in v4

http://dadamailproject.com/images/dev/old.jpg

View List in v5

http://dadamailproject.com/images/dev/new.jpg

It's more than a different layout - really, you're not going to want to use the v4 version soon :)

So, anyways - post it to the boards, or in the issues tracker:

http://github.com/justingit/dada-mail/issues

with a slight preference with the tracker, since it'll be logged and recorded.
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Re: Invitations being sent to Mail List

Postby justin » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:07 am

OK, I've made the buttons on the bottom of the mass mailings screens way more specific, to help with people getting confused and I also added an option to send a copy of a mass mailing to the list owner, which may be disabled.
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